(Edited for flow and clarity)
Note: You can also listen to the recording using the embedded PodBean player at the end of this page.
Glenda: Do you want to say anything, Mike, before I start speaking?
Mike: Oh, just a note of housekeeping. We are recording the session. We haven’t posted any of the videos on YouTube. But we have posted some of the audio clips on the website. But if we plan to do anything more than just the audio, we’ll let you know. And of course, feel free to ask any question about the teaching, The Living Method of Spiritual Awakening, any of the offerings that Fred has and the whole community has—books, videos, courses, recorded and live courses, and if you want to talk about the impact that it’s had on people’s journey, of course you can ask that as well. So let me turn over to Glenda. She is, of course, an authorized teacher of The Living Method that Fred has authorized, and she’s very clear and great at answering all these questions, so fire away, she will answer.
Glenda: Thanks, Mike. Thank you. It has been a little quiet so far, but I do think that it’s a nice idea, I suppose the concept of groundedness. I’d like to just notice a sense of being, of aliveness. If you turn your attention inward, so to speak, you may notice that aliveness has vibration, and it may be sensed as vibration in a body or my body. However, if you look, can you find a border to that sense of aliveness? We are vibrating, routinely, or however aliveness is experienced. Can you find a limit to it, or is it boundless? Can I find a limit? What’s here now is boundless, and something that has no limit and is boundless one can describe as infinite. And the tension that’s noticing this infinite, boundless aliveness, can there be more, better, or different than infinity? Let’s be still for a minute.
Glenda: (following pause). Thank you. Can we bring attention to the room? Does anybody want to pose a question or share what brings them here today? Gav, can I put you on the spot? Can you share some of the impact that The Living Method, in particular, the offering, if you will, of clearing that’s available with the teaching? Can you share your perspective on that?
Gavin: Glenda, can you hear me?
Glenda: Yes.
Gavin: I’m having internet issues, like I dropped out a couple of times, so I might disappear. I don’t know what’s going to happen.
Glenda: (laughing)
Gavin: I thought the sound dropped out just at the last part of what you were saying. I know you asked me my experience with The Living Method.
Glenda: Yeah, in particular, I would think it might be helpful as relates to the opportunity of clearing that’s available with this teaching that doesn’t seem to exist elsewhere. I don’t know everything, but to my knowledge, in general and nondual circles, it’s kind of miracle if there is any awakening, so to speak, let alone that there’s no need for a clearing program. But here there is.
Gavin: You’re going to hear a loud car maybe going past, apologies.
Glenda: I don’t hear it.
Gavin: Okay, perfect. For me, it has been a very gradual process of beginning to see more and more of what this body mind is working with or carrying. A lot of that, you know, after many years of meditation and all sorts of other spiritual exercises and practices, and nearly 30 years of stuff, to begin to see how thick or deep the whole patterns or the ego is here. It’s very obvious to see, say, reactivity or arrogance, like these are obvious things that I can see when they happen. But there’s a lot of other stuff that was just never seen how deep it permeates through all communication, and, even communicating now as awareness of being unsure and watching what’s happening to see, it’s almost like walking a tightrope, you know. Fred talks about grandiosity, or I can’t think of the other word he uses either, grandiosity like, ‘Oh, I’m spiritual…’
Glenda: Insufficiency, not enough.
Gavin: Yeah, that’s a fine line on my path or on my work of state. So I’ll finish on this. It’s just a lot more awareness of that stuff, the very obvious stuff I was aware of for 30 years. There was no issue with that. But it’s the very deep patterns, programming, that I know I unfold to see more.
Glenda: Yeah. So do you see that the grandiosity, not being enough, is the yin and yang of a thinking pattern.
Gavin: Yeah, well, yeah.
Glenda: Yeah. But one doesn’t exist without the other.
Gavin: Yeah. But neither are the answer.
Glenda: Correct.
Gavin: What I previously, prior to Fred’s work, would have thought that one of them, but I would have thought, ‘Oh, I’m trying to get to this place,” whereas now there’s more awareness that whatever place I’m in, this is it. This is.
Glenda: Yeah, and you see that the two together being both sides of the same coin, they are It, too, but as imagination or illusion. It’s all It.
Gavin: It’s all It. But the biggest realization over here in the last few days, and I mean, you were asking me this question, is that on some level I always thought that we’re like, I see this stuff, and I need to work with it through clearing. I realize no, like maybe 90% of it, I don’t see at all. It’s invisible. And gradually little things get spotted. And if I’m paying attention or clearing or inquiring, I can take advantage of that opportunity, whereas previously there was no inquiry. I just lived those patterns, you know.
Glenda: Do you see now that there is no one to handle it, yet by recognizing It as, this, is It, too? There’s no judgment. There’s no reactivity. And so there’s either a dissolving of a pattern or it doesn’t matter if it’s there. Does that map onto your experience?
Gavin: It takes the sting out of us.
Glenda: Yeah, there’s no sting.
Gavin: Yeah. And there’s no one to be stung. The momentary realization that, okay, this is what’s happening, these sensations or this story. This is what’s happening. But it doesn’t seem to be happening to anyone. I can’t find a Gavin.
Glenda: It doesn’t seem that way, because it’s not.
Gavin: Yeah. But you know my journey, and I’m an extremely slow learner, or this body mind, or this piece of Awakeness, whatever you want to call it, it’s a very gradual process. So even the looking for the me and I’m inquiring, wondering, you know, who is suffering, or where is this Gavin, or this me or this person? That’s been a very gradual process, and a lot of complaining along the way and a lot of identifying with. And I’m sure it will continue again, maybe later today we’ll see.
Glenda: Who knows what will arise. Well. I forewarn them. This sounds stupid to say, but there’s a sense of “I’m proud of you.” We work together. It’s been a privilege and a joy. And it’s wonderful to observe the freedom that’s evident through the clarity of whatever It is. This is It is being lived, very fully, makes a tremendous difference.
Gavin: Thanks, Glenda. Yeah, prior to working with you and working with Fred, I was totally convinced that there was just one switch, and that’s it. That hasn’t been my experience. I know it might be for some people, but it hasn’t been my experience. And even in recent days, and even this morning, there is an increase in willingness to let go more or, I don’t even have a word that in nondual speak.
Glenda: Yes.
Gavin: Fred’s line came to me this morning as well. Fred talks about not lying to yourself.
Glenda: Hmm.
Gavin: And that’s a quite a deep route that I kind of always—I mean, if you would ask me that a month ago, or Fred, I would have said, “Of course I’m not lying to myself. You know I’m turning up to Satsang. And I’m doing this work.” And of course I’m not so deep to not even be aware of lying to myself, or I know that might not be incorrect language.
Glenda: There really is no right language for this stuff. But so we say, lying to ourselves, but any thinking that arises that is identified with or owned, that’s the lie. Because all concepts, all thinking is an interpretation and a lie, an attempted description at what This is, and any description can’t describe It. So language lies. It’s a necessary tool, but it does lie. And yes, it can take a quite a bit of clearing to really get it. I don’t remember when it happened, but I do remember there was a point where, “Oh! All thinking is illusion. All thinking is a lie.” And it was recognized before that realization, it was like this belief like, well, some thoughts are to be believed, you know? Some not. So it’s a big, big, step, and it’s not like a final step, because we believe them when we believe them, and we don’t when we don’t. Then yes, it’s a process to discover. I just recently had a really big hum. I didn’t see it as a belief. I saw like the need for pain, discomfort, suffering, as a necessary part of maintaining clarity. And this just happened actually, yesterday, when it was recognized as a belief. Because I don’t know that; I don’t know anything. How can you even know that that’s necessary? And there’s been a lot of pain here, and it seemed to have been helpful to have alertness, or here’s another poor word—acceptance. It’s not that; there’s no one to accept anything. But when it was seen that that’s an interpretation, and the possibility exists that clarity can be, would apparently thrive, with comfortable experiencing instead of the need for difficulty to stay alert. So it’s interesting. Yes. So still a realization of belief that wasn’t seen through as belief. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for your participation and your contribution.
Gavin: Thank you. Great to be here.
Mike: Glenda, Neil asked a question in the chat. He says, “If the separate self doesn’t exist or is an illusion, why are we born with it, or what is its purpose?”
Glenda: Okay, let me see if I can… It’s better if I see it, so I can reflect on it. I brought the chat up. I hadn’t been aware of it before. So let’s see. Well, we’re not born with it. It is an illusion. It doesn’t exist, so we can’t be born with it. It seems to arise through conditioning, like the repetition of being programmed to believe that each apparent body is separate from things and others. But we’re not born with it, and there is no purpose to any of this. And let me explore with you why I say that. I’ve spoken several times with Fred about this. It’s a really interesting thing. I think we’re all familiar with in relative experiencing things can feel a certain way. And so we’ve learned to see that the sense of something or something feeling like something isn’t the same as the truth of something. I mean, I can’t tell you how many times I’ll see what’s apparently happening, and it just goes and works so perfectly that it feels like it’s orchestrated, or there’s an intention. However, this is so strange. I can sit here. I can hear it’s like it’s a contradiction. Everything contradicts itself because it’s not either/or. So at the same time that feeling that there’s purpose or direction or intention, that’s It, too. That’s the no-thingness sensing that there’s an intention. But if you just feel that there’s just this alive spaciousness, it’s no-thing, and this is the reflection of it. This is It; no-thing appearing as something. So that being said, there truly is only one. This is It. If this is It, and it is, it’s complete. It’s done. There is nothing for It to become. There’s no place for It to go. There’s no time for there to be intention or improvement. That’s what’s so. And it doesn’t feel that way experientially. You know, you can’t deny that there’s It. This It is experiencing. It’s nothing experiencing no-thingness that’s as somethingness. And yes, it’s not to be understood. And it contradicts Itself because it’s not either/or; it’s both. It’s everything and nothing. So talk to me. I see you shaking your head. You seem to be resonating with what I’m saying. Give me a little feedback about the answer. So yes, you get that, you feel it, or if you need more.
Neo: I think it explains it. It’s not either/or; it’s both. And manifesting was appearing as something.
Glenda: Yes, it is this. There is no thing. I mean, even the scientists see that there’s no thing. The power of microscopy shows that there’s only space. That’s it. It’s crazy. So even the science that we worship tells us that all this is not what it seems to be, but it’s not one or the other. So somehow this is an imagery, a spontaneous apparent happening. And it is the no-thingness. That’s all there is.
Neo: And then a separate as they should be.
Glenda: Say that again.
Neo: They are not separate.
Glenda: Nothing is separate.
Neo: Yeah, that makes sense. That explains it.
Glenda: Yeah. Because this is It. This is the unseen, unspeakable, unknowable. And as I look at It, I mean Fred often talks of the mirror. I don’t know if you’ve ever… I promote this video an awful lot on YouTube. I love it—Fred’s video, “What You Are and What You Are Not.” It’s an experiential meditation. He speaks towards the end of it about being the mirror, and the mirror not being able to see Itself, you know, but just its reflection. And reflections are not separate from the mirror. They are the mirror, and they’re nothing. Contemplate that; it’s a visual of what I’m speaking about now, and I know when I first heard it, it hit a very deep level what I’m speaking of now, and that’s what Fred means when he says we don’t deny experiencing. But truly nothing is actually happening. It’s crazy, makes no sense. We can’t understand, but it’s beautiful. I love you, Neo, thank you.
Neo: Thank you very much.
Glenda: Andrew.
Andrew: Yes. Hello, great meeting. I think that’s killed all my questions.
Glenda: Yes, that’s how it is! There are no questions.
Andrew: It has, but you’re still talking about something that sounds… I like what you’re saying. So I’ll just continue with what my question was anyway.
Glenda: Yes, good idea.
Andrew: Yeah. So I’ve noticed that there’s a lot of fluctuations in energy and mood. So yeah. This morning there was a lot of anger, but it was just giving me a lot of power. So I was enjoying that sort of an addiction, if you like to maybe anger, and I don’t want to let it go. And I notice that when I am suffering sometimes I remember to challenge the thought, and that that thought goes, it’s great. But if I’m having good thoughts, I know I want to keep those, and I want a little bit of suffering because I benefiting from suffering because it makes me more creative when I try to help people. I can’t help people if I don’t suffer things like this. So I’m taking bits that I, or bit of anger like that. I’m just on a hamster wheel of emotions, I think. Yeah. So please interrupt.
Glenda: Yeah, can you find the one referring to “I”?
Andrew: Yeah.
Glenda: Who is the “I” that you’re referring to? Can you find “I” you’re referring to?
Andrew: I know the answer is, no, it’s just in every thought.
Glenda: Stay away from what you know.
Andrew: Okay.
Glenda: Everything you know, it is really not so. We don’t know what’s going on. We have a sense of control, like I hear what you’re saying about anger, the arising of anger. Anger is like a strong energy, and when it is identified with can give a false sense of power because the anger is being appropriated by “I.” But there is none. Can you find the “I”? Does the “I” have anything to do with the body?
Andrew: No. Outside of thoughts, there’s no “I” in in the body. No.
Glenda: Okay, very good. Yes. But it is the thoughts.
Andrew: They carry a lot of energy, thoughts, yeah.
Glenda: Well, isn’t “I” a thought?
Andrew: Absolutely, absolutely.
Glenda: You can’t find it.
Andrew: Nope.
Glenda: Where is it hiding? It’s not hiding in the body. Do you scan the body? You can’t find it.
Andrew: That’s correct.
Glenda: Well, I would venture to say, if it can’t be found inside the body, then where on earth else would you find it? And why would you even take ownership of it? It’s not even related with this false identification with the body. It’s a thought.
Andrew: Yeah, definitely.
Glenda: The thing about it is that, have you had glimpses of True Nature, or an Awakening session, or anything like that, Andrew?
Andrew: I had maybe in 2010, I had one day of no self-consciousness.
Glenda: There was no Andrew, there was no Andrew.
Andrew: Yeah. And it was magical.
Glenda: Yes. Okay, so it’s important. So wait. Let me try it. That wonderful day is remembered by the “I” the thought Andrew as a wonderful day. But there was no Andrew present. That’s what made it the perfect day.
Andrew: Yeah, right. Yeah.
Glenda: And with The Living Method the work starts with Awakening Clarity Now. And I think you can understand this by what you just said to me. Who the hell gives a crap about what happened in 2010, right, unless there’s clarity speaking now and the lack of identification as an Andrew. Unless that is happening now, it’s imagination. Does that make sense? Clarity can only be now, because there only is now. Do you have any access to clarity through that memory?
Andrew: No.
Glenda: No, no, because the memory is just a thought. Thoughts are It, but when believed or owned, the veil that this is it. So let me finish this line of thinking with you. So maybe you can see a possibility of, first, there needs to be a very clear recognition of—and this is where there’s contradiction—of what you are not, that you are not Andrew and that there never was an Andrew and that Andrew is a story. Once that’s seen that what you, if you will, are not the body, and there is no Andrew, then what is it that’s engaging? Having the conversation, experiencing? What is that? And that’s explored and recognized. True Nature is already here, and the stripping away of what’s false leaves what’s already here to be experienced, which is not proper. I don’t know what other language to use, but what already is becomes obvious and the overlay of thinking is recognized as such. After you had your experience in 2010, it could have been after that day when you started speaking of “What a great day I had” and you went into memory, who was speaking?
Andrew: Awakeness.
Glenda: Well, technically, yes, this is It. No-thing was speaking technically. But what is speaking is from the point of view of there being a center called Andrew.
Andrew: Okay, yeah.
Glenda: Right? The Andrew pattern claims the Awakening…
Andrew: Yeah.
Glenda: And it is gone. So I’m pointing you to this so you can see how tricky it is, that however old you are from about the time you were born, and probably took about 18 months for your parents to successfully convince whatever this is but everything of it, that you would be just this little body called Andrew. And from 18 months forward that’s been believed. And there is a program, a conditioning, a pattern of its way of responding to the conditions of life. It’s a conditioned response reflex. In this work there are programs for… we call it clearing. Basically what you’re doing is shifting the default from Andrew-ness patterns to living as True Nature. And it doesn’t look a particular way. In other words, according to an Andrew—worst case scenario—you’d still have all of the anger, upset, complaints, da da da arising. However, if it’s not yours, does it matter? If rain clouds pass in the sky, does it matter to the sky if there are rain clouds or cumulus clouds? No. So once a default is shifting, whatever arises, it makes no difference to the truth of what is because it’s not owned.
Andrew: Yes.
Glenda: There’s no owner.
Andrew: That’s funny, because that just right at the end, it just made me angry, and of course there’s no owner to the anger. (laughs)
Glenda: That’s right.
Andrew: And then I’m angry about that, and then I’m angry about that, and then…
Glenda: Very good, very good. So there was a distance.
Andrew: Yeah, but I can see the pushing and pulling that I want to be angry.
Glenda: So do you know, it’s funny, this is really funny coming from me because I’m about as low tech as you get. But, if you know something about technology or programs, I mean, what does it take to undo a program? You know, programs just run. They are automatic, you know. And yes, so it takes an unlearning of the illusion or seeing the illusion as a lie. You just did that. That just happened now. So the spaciousness, the alive spaciousness, recognize the anger arising and didn’t take ownership of it. And I think there was actually understanding that it’s trying to survive itself. The program survives itself with thinking loops. And in this work, inquiry is used as a powerful tool to interrupt automatic conditioned patterns, kind of wake us up now to what’s so instead of being lost in imagination of thought.
Andrew: Yeah, but the problem is I don’t want to do inquiry when I want to keep some of those programs. And I want to do inquiry when I don’t want to keep some of those.
Glenda: Well, so what you’re saying is when the program’s running, and it believes that the program is an Andrew.
Andrew: Yeah.
Glenda: It doesn’t want to not exist.
Andrew: Yep.
Glenda: It doesn’t want to be no-thingness.
Andrew: Absolutely.
Glenda: It wants to be something special and recognized.
Andrew: Yes. And if someone says, you know, “Go over there, do some breathing. Go and inquire.” I’m like, no. It’s very stubborn. Other times, absolutely love doing inquiry. So you could say that it’s the energy that’s driving that. It wants to exist.
Glenda: The conditioned pattern of thinking that you could call Andrew-ness. You know we speak of it like ordinary speaking. We will say, “Oh, I’m like this. I’m like that. Oh, I never do that. Oh, I’m like this.” That’s what it sounds like. It’s taking the ownership of the conditioning, you know. When you’re not taking the ownership of the conditioning, anger is arising.
Andrew: But who is not taking ownership?
Glenda: There’s no one to take ownership.
Andrew: Okay.
Glenda: Imagination, but imagination believes itself. It takes itself very seriously. Right? You notice we’re talking to each other and there’s this recognition of the truth, you’ll like get that little chuckle or that little smile. What Is isn’t serious. There’s nothing to be serious about. There’s nothing really going on. It’s really very funny, you know. But Andrew patterns, Andrew-ness is very serious.
Andrew: Oh yeah.
Glenda: Imaginary characters are very serious and take themselves very seriously.
Andrew: Yeah, I’ve got a very serious imaginary character here.
Glenda: Okay, so I’m glad you came, and I hope you consider what I’m saying about, there is no path to Awakening because there’s no path to now. Right now what you’re seeking Is, and because there is an illusion of separation, the programming is an illusion of separation, it’s looking for connectedness. It’s looking to complete itself. It’s looking for something that doesn’t exist, and that’s all that exists. It already is complete. And right now the completion of the picture of what’s happening is that through that body that’s called Andrew there’s a thinking pattern that’s believed to be a somebody. And even though you can’t find that somebody, the program does not want to believe that.
Andrew: I mean wonderful. Thank you. I’ve got a lot to look at there. I love what you said about it’s looking for connectedness and all of that. So I’m going to practice that phrase as well. There’s awareness of anger.
Glenda: Everything is just what’s apparently happening.
Andrew: Yeah.
Glenda: See if you can look at life as what’s apparently happening. What is apparently happening basically comes down to, in summary, three things: thinking, which we label as a noun, as a mind, but there is none. There’s just apparently thinking happening. Then there’s sensing, which we call the body or our body. And there’s perceiving. Those are the senses that have us believe there’s a world outside of us.
Andrew: Hmm.
Glenda: So you might want to explore those. They’re not separate, but it’s easy to look at them separately initially. But if you get in touch with thinking, sensing, perceiving is all that’s apparently happening. Those are not things, and they cannot be found. They cannot be localized. It’s all arising in spaciousness. And that’s all there is. And we’re here for you, if you’re ready to, not explore, but actually recognize there never was an Andrew.
Andrew: Excellent. Thank you so much.
Glenda: Thank you.
Andrew: I’ll be there tomorrow as well. I think there’s one tomorrow.
Glenda: Oh, wonderful. Satsang, yes, with Fred.
Andrew: Yeah.
Glenda: Okay, I’ll see you there. I look forward to it, and you know there’s no indoctrination, orientation. You feel like questioning, sharing, doesn’t matter if your first time ever in the room. If you can raise your hand and interact with Fred, that’s the best thing that you can do, and if it happens, it happens, if it doesn’t, it doesn’t.
Andrew: Sometimes I don’t have questions, but I’m glad I had a question today. So yeah, it’s good.
Glenda: So that’s wonderful. You don’t have to have a question. You could raise your hand and just say hi, and say, “I don’t know what to say. But I just want to say hi.” And then you just see what happens, because you’re not doing it anyway. So just see what comes out through that mouth. (laughs)
Andrew: Wonderful.
Glenda: Okay, I’ll see you tomorrow. I look forward to it. Great. Ben.
Ben: Hi, can you hear me?
Glenda: I can.
Ben: So thank you for putting this on. This is the first one I’ve went to. So appreciate it.
Glenda: You’re welcome.
Ben: So I hear everything you’re saying about the previous question, and it all makes sense. Yet in this emptiness, I can still detect the ego wanting to craft a narrative in any way, shape, or form it can about It. Because there’s only It. So the only thing the ego seems to want, or is capable of, is creating a story would be that It exists for its own sake. But is that still yet another narrative?
Glenda: Okay. Well, I’ll ask a question. I don’t know if it’s appropriate at this stage of the game, but it’s there so I’ll ask. You mentioned the ego. Can you find an ego?
Ben: No.
Glenda: No, it’s a concept, is it not?
Ben: Correct. It’s a concept.
Glenda: So let’s look at a little closer. Of course, you’re describing, in other words, we call egoic mental patterns of thinking that arise. In other words, “I” thoughts—I think this, I think that—is egoic thinking that you’re describing. And it’s like I was saying to Andrew, yes, as you say, it does seem the only function of that egoic thinking patterning that’s arising, it sounds crazy to say, but we’ll say—self-survival. It is a program of surviving its own conditioning, its own pattern, its own trail of thinking, if you will. Does that make sense?
Ben: Yes, I think where I’m coming at this from is there seems to be an impulse to create a narrative around the fact that there is just This. And therefore I need to do something about that. Like there can be a story about how there is just This, and therefore I’m doing for doings sake. And therefore what does that mean? Am I here to…is it play? Is it art? What is something for its own sake?
Glenda: Okay, but you’re saying there is just This. You said that, right?
Ben: Yeah.
Glenda: How can it be just This, an “I” who has to do something about just This?
Ben: That’s where I’m stuck. Yeah, yeah.
Glenda: It needs to be seen or recognized that conversation of, “What am I supposed to do about this is It,” is imagination, you know, and it’s not something that’s going to happen like that in a conversation that we’re having here. You can get a little, perhaps a little glimpse of it, a glimpse of it. But yeah, something needs to … Well, with The Living Method, inquiry is used, very targeted, purposeful, if you will, pointed inquiry that if answered honestly unravels, kind of like unties the knots of that “I”, “I”-ness. But it needs to be understood that it is a pattern, and it is a conditioning, and it doesn’t disappear once it’s been unraveled or unseen. That can only happen now. As I was saying to Andrew, past experiencing is just a memory, and no thinking has access to what Is. It vales it. It’s hypnosis.
Ben: I like the analogy of knots, because now I’m thinking thoughts are knots.
Glenda: Yes.
Ben: We’re tangled up in them. So yeah, so we’re trying to untie ourselves.
Glenda: But the “I” that’s trying to untangle it is a thought.
Ben: Right.
Glenda: There’s no one to do anything. There’s just what is apparently happening, and it’s spontaneous and not directed.
Ben: So the knot unties itself, because there’s no me to be untying it.
Glenda: Yes, yes.
Ben: All right.
Glenda: Or it doesn’t. But it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t. To the live spaciousness, it’s when I speak of there only being love, there is just—acceptance is the wrong word, allowing is the wrong word, I don’t know what word to use—but it’s like anything goes. There’s no judgment of what is, right?
Ben: I think that’s where I was coming from originally was, that’s a good word for it. Love is accepting something for its own sake, I guess, would be one way to say it. Now that’s itself another thought, but because there is just It. It is it, if you will. So it’s love. But then I want to create a narrative about how it is love, and then that that can be self-serving to create an agenda about how to live life. But that’s the thought.
Glenda: That’s the Ben thinking pattern wanting to control or feel that it exists by attempting to control. I mean, let’s face it. This is apparent happening of no-thingness. What is there to control? Who’s going to control it? It’s just totally free, however It is. Like they say, it’s what we would call the good, the bad, and the ugly tool. And we don’t understand why things are the way they are. There’s a lot of stuff going on that’s apparently happening that doesn’t make sense or isn’t acceptable to our sensibilities, you know. But that’s It, too. There’s no judgment. There’s no one judging. Are there those patterns? There definitely are. That’s a red flag of what Is taking ownership of imagination, thinking something shouldn’t be the way it is. Judgment. It’s like when you notice it, you say, “Oh, wake up!” Yeah. Are you coming to Satsang tomorrow, Ben?
Ben: Yes, I’d like to.
Glenda: Wonderful, wonderful. I hope you take the opportunity to speak with Fred, too.
Ben: Yeah, thank you.
Glenda: Well, like I was saying about high tech, I was trying to see something down here on the bottom of certain things. Forget about that. It’s not happening.
Andrew: If I can say one thing, if that’s all right.
Glenda: Absolutely, absolutely.
Andrew: So obviously, it’s a thought that I have that takes ownership of all thoughts and all feelings and all sensations. So embedded in every thought I have includes ownership. And that’s it. I just wanted to say that out loud. So I need to start challenging thoughts.
Glenda: Yes, a good way to challenge is: “Is that true?” And then really look.
Andrew: Yeah. What could I do? Is it true that I own this thought?
Glenda: Can I find an owner to this thinking because it’s not even a thought. There are no things. It’s thinking arising, thinking apparently happening, thinking. The one that I know of who said this was Sailor Bob. You add “ing” to everything. There’s thinking. There’s believing. There’s experiencing. There’s no one doing it, but yeah, can you find the owner to this thinking? You will not find one.
Andrew: Yeah. And again, the problem is this conditioning wants to stay and exist, so it might not want to always look.
Glenda: But so let me ask you. Can you imagine the absence of Andrew or Andrew-ness, is there a problem?
Andrew: No, no.
Glenda: No. So when you hear, “Yeah, but,” or “The problem is,” that’s the Andrew bot.
Andrew: Yeah. I like that. In the absence of Andrew…
Glenda: Can you find a problem?
Andrew: Yeah, or in the absence of Andrew, would there be any resistance to inquiry?
Glenda: No, because that’s what it is. It’s either seeking or resisting. That’s what the conditioning, that’s what the pattern of imaginary characters, they’re either seeking or resisting. They either want what isn’t here to be here, or want what’s here shouldn’t be here to go away. That’s the program. Dissatisfaction. Just a dissatisfaction program.
Andrew: That’s very helpful. This “in the absence of,” that’s extremely helpful to break down the resistance. Yeah.
Glenda: You would recognize it. It will persist arising, or it will not. There’s no one to control that. All that can be done, if you will, is to recognize what’s apparently happening. I’m so glad you spoke again.
Andrew: Me, too. This is gold. Thank you.
Glenda: Yeah. I love when Fred says no, you probably hear it in Satsang because it happens all the time, he’s talking to somebody, let’s say, who hasn’t had their Awakening or has had an Awakening but they’re not clear at the moment, and they listen to Fred, and they go, “Yeah, but…” (laughs) And Fred says, “Get your ‘but’ out of here.” “Yeah, but” is a big clue. It’s program conditioning, conditioned response, “Yeah, but,” trying to defend its position. Point of view. There is no point of view. There is no one to have a point of view. If you recognize a point of view, that’s the imaginary character. That’s It appearing as an imaginary character. Crazy stuff. So good.
Andrew: Thank you. Fantastic.
Glenda: Thank you. Thank you so much. So we still have some time. Any other sharing, questions whatever. If there are not, let me ask you this. We can end now, or I can kind of ramble on and see what comes out. You vote for that.
Andrew: A little bit of rambling.
Glenda: A little bit of rambling. Okay, so let’s see what comes out. Well, lately there’s been inquiry about, this is It, that This Is what can’t be known and what can’t be understood appearing to be what we call everything. And this appearance, this no-thingness of the appearance, it’s bringing me very much in touch with, yes, we do need language to get at what’s beyond language. It’s like all the language that we use to clear things away and get to choose like consciousness, awareness, Awakeness. These words, they’re like subtly experienced. And I guess what’s really, very powerfully come up lately is no matter how subtle the experiencing is, any experiencing is an illusion of somethingness, of this no-thingness being something that’s… So, I feel, I don’t know, I’ve had anesthesia, but you don’t have to have had anesthesia. Just thinking about deep, dreamless sleep and how it’s just totally blank. We can only know of its existence, but we can’t know or experience anything of deep, dreamless sleep, and the feeling or recognition is how this, the appearances or the reflections upon the mirror of that blankness, of that mysterious nonexistent blank unknown. So even the sense of being, the sense of aliveness, the recognition of awareness, or consciousness, this is all apparently happening. It seems anything that could be recognized is an appearance, no matter how subtle it is. And I don’t know if this makes a difference in experiencing, somehow what feels like over here it does. There’s a lightness about what’s apparently happening. There’s just This. I don’t know what other words to use. But knowing this, but it’s not that, because there’s no one to know anything. It really is so. But I say, Fred says, “I don’t know anything,” and I guess that’s what this whole contemplation has brought me, so to speak, in touch with this truly not knowing anything. How could I possibly know anything when the business, if you will, of this appearance, this no-thingness. You don’t even know what that is. And this is that. And we can’t possibly know that. So how can we know this? But there appears to be knowing. Somehow, it’s all handled perfectly for an imaginary us. It’s just doing its own thing. It’s doing everything, and at the same time creating the illusion of doership, of us having something to really do or say about anything. So that’s what’s been arising here a lot recently, deepening, if you will, of the no-thingness of it all. And in delivering a teaching message it is important to, like anybody who presents in a room, to speak to where they’re at or the openness or willingness that’s there. But even saying that This is all consciousness, there’s—I don’t know. I do know that without this sense of being or awareness or consciousness sense, nothing is happening. There’s nothing that can be known in the absence of that. But it is an appearance. If it can be experienced, it’s apparent. Yeah, so what I said before, it lends itself in experiencing to not taking myself, so to speak, or others or life so seriously. It’s really crazy seeing the behaviors of people, so to speak, some more skillful than others. Not that they’re not all automatic, but some patterns it’s so obviously automatic. Have you ever been with people and they just keep talking, or if they start talking, they’ll just be these references to “This happened to me,” that story, story, just it runs, it runs, it runs. And that happening thinks it’s a somebody, a something. And to some degree, if we identify patterns, that’s what’s happening when that’s happening. But if that’s what’s happening, as Fred would say, that’s what must be happening, because there’s no alternative. I can’t find another This. I can only find This This, and feel the emptiness of it. And with that, enough rambling for today. I love you. I thank you for your gracious listening and attention. It has been a pleasure and a privilege. Have a great rest of today.
Andrew and others: Thank you.
Glenda: You’re welcome. See you tomorrow at Satsang. Bye.
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